Comments on: Pregnant Montana teacher deserves to keep her job https://notstrictlyspiritual.com/faith/pregnant-montana-teacher-deserves-to-keep-her-job/ Discovering the Divine in the Everyday. Sun, 16 Feb 2014 14:41:14 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.8.2 By: Don Miller https://notstrictlyspiritual.com/faith/pregnant-montana-teacher-deserves-to-keep-her-job/#comment-4572 Sun, 16 Feb 2014 14:41:14 +0000 https://notstrictlyspiritual.com/?p=3548#comment-4572 What if we change the scenario, as a morality case study?

Let’s say I happen to steal some money and it looks like I won’t get away with it because there is a witness. What are my options? I can come clean, admit that I made a mistake, give back the money and even sacrifice and pay the money back tenfold. Or I could bribe the witness, or blackmail, or “silence” the witness. If I choose to do the right thing, should I expect to keep my job? If word gets around that you really can get fired for stealing, then the next time a person finds himself with stolen money will he resort to murder to cover up the first sin? Is my employer wrong to fire me even if they are vocal in their pro-honesty, pro-forgiveness stance?

Is this an unfair comparison? The difference with pregnancy is the lifelong consequence of a choice and the “legal” life and death power of the chooser. Maybe a better scenario would be drinking and driving. We used to think that it was no big deal until MAD mothers taught us to think before we drink and drive.

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By: Tony https://notstrictlyspiritual.com/faith/pregnant-montana-teacher-deserves-to-keep-her-job/#comment-4571 Sun, 16 Feb 2014 12:23:24 +0000 https://notstrictlyspiritual.com/?p=3548#comment-4571 In reply to robert.

Robert,

In a secular nation there is no place for schools that place religous beliefs over societal rights. None. Simple answer, if private schools can’t work within that framework then no private schools. Seems to work brilliantly in Scandanavia. The perpetration of whatever superstitions you have should be kept to your own time. If Faith is the most important thing in a Catholic school then it fails as a school and should cease to exist as such.

Your presumption that values of society have their basis in Christianity is misplaced. They all existed before the cobbled collection of chinese whispers that is the Bible. Most were co-opted from existing Greek and Roman precursors to fit the rapidly expanding mythology that came with the first growth spurts of the early Church. They’re sound, not because they were the mystical words a sky god, but because they had worked for centuries before Christ wandered the Earth.

The best role models are those that don’t judge, that abide by the basic principles of understanding and love for their fellow humans. Qualities that Pope Francis is trying to re introduce to the utterly venal organisation that is the Catholic Church.

There is a mote in the eye, alright, but the eye does not belong to the teacher.

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By: Trish https://notstrictlyspiritual.com/faith/pregnant-montana-teacher-deserves-to-keep-her-job/#comment-4570 Wed, 12 Feb 2014 04:31:19 +0000 https://notstrictlyspiritual.com/?p=3548#comment-4570 It seems the Catholic Church–diocese by diocese–has gone back to the actions of the Irish nuns and some orphanages here in the States prior to 1950’s. But too these priests and most nuns then and now had no experience with sexuality, childbearing etc So how can they understand what it is like. We have enough trouble with secular men not understanding some of the odd ideas and actions done by pregnant women or often their dismissal of children under the age of 4. My son has been with his wife and new child since the minute he was born and I think it has opened his mind–along with some activities as a kid. Maybe priests as they prepare for the priesthood should spend some time and activities with pregnant women and newborn babies. It may open some of their eyes.

It’s good to remember Aquinas was not damning to newborns but one can’t say the same for Thomas More and his dismissive attitude toward his wife and all but one daughter and all those women of Henry’s England that were claimed “witches.” I have never understood how he justified their being burned at the stake.

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By: John Janaro https://notstrictlyspiritual.com/faith/pregnant-montana-teacher-deserves-to-keep-her-job/#comment-4569 Tue, 11 Feb 2014 17:38:06 +0000 https://notstrictlyspiritual.com/?p=3548#comment-4569 I don’t think I can “take sides” on this particular event because I don’t know all the facts. Having said that, I am sympathetic to the woman given what I know thus far, taking into account that problems are inevitably more complicated than they appear from the outside.

I am frankly bemused by some of these comments that propose to assign this poor woman public penance for a sin that I (at least) know nothing about in terms of her degree of culpability or whether she was even willing at all. Scandal? Sex outside of marriage is objectively a grave sin. That is true. Perhaps Montana is different, but where I live the whole environment is a scandal against purity and modesty, and if don’t help my kids see how the truth about sexuality is rooted in the redeeming love of Jesus, they don’t stand a chance to deal constructively with the scandal that assaults them from every direction. If we really catechize our children, they will still have difficulty but they will have an awareness–even if they sin–that the culture is a lie, but also that love, forgiveness and healing are possible because Jesus is present for them in the Church. We need to catechize our children with clear teaching, and also with a family life that helps them to discover the beauty of Christ (and dare I say a parish community life, or a group of friends, or even one other family to help us live Christian communion in a concrete way). A single mother who has fallen and repented should not be a scandal if we are raising our children to participate in the new evangelization.

And in the reality of what has long been the post-Christian “Western world,” the new evangelization is the way the Church is present in our social environment. Our parishes should be field hospitals, and our children should be learning to be doctors and medics and nurses in the trenches, along with us. Because the trenches are everywhere.

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By: Christine https://notstrictlyspiritual.com/faith/pregnant-montana-teacher-deserves-to-keep-her-job/#comment-4568 Tue, 11 Feb 2014 17:17:34 +0000 https://notstrictlyspiritual.com/?p=3548#comment-4568 All I’d like to add is that when I stand before God in judgment I would rather err on the side of mercy.

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By: Peg https://notstrictlyspiritual.com/faith/pregnant-montana-teacher-deserves-to-keep-her-job/#comment-4567 Mon, 10 Feb 2014 16:29:29 +0000 https://notstrictlyspiritual.com/?p=3548#comment-4567 In reply to Robert J. Fallon.

Thank you Bob for the constructive use of prayer as the answer.

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By: Robert J. Fallon https://notstrictlyspiritual.com/faith/pregnant-montana-teacher-deserves-to-keep-her-job/#comment-4566 Sun, 09 Feb 2014 19:40:11 +0000 https://notstrictlyspiritual.com/?p=3548#comment-4566 From the number of responses which I have read, it would seen that the absolute rulers in this school and diocese, have only accomplished supplying more cannon fodder for those who love to hate our Church. In their haste throw this soon to be mother under the bus of “catholic” political correctness and over-kill, they have only managed to shoot themselves in the foot and possibly lose many who are fence-walking Catholics and/or are weak or searching for a Faith to bring them through this life’s journey to salvation. There seems to be a serious case of Montana brain freeze inflicting those who have made this cowardly decision. This young woman who had the courage to keep her baby and face the posion dipped slings and arrows of the so-called catholic leaders in her diocese, surely showed more personal valor than all of the rest combined. Sure, there is a contract and a contract can be used to a good and also a not so good end. As the father of six and grandfather of 16, I fully understand the concern for the children. In this case I feel that the children are being used as an excuse to fire this woman. I am quite sure that the serious concern for the children and the local parishioners could have been handled in a better way by bringing all concerned parties together in a humble, fervent and sincere spirit of PRAYER, reconciliation and understanding. Why not get the Holy Spirit involved before jumping off the cliff of panic and social chaos. Let the Holy Spirit have a chance to to get a word in edge-wise, as they are making a life-altering decision, which will seriously impact, not just the life of a mother, but also, her child and family. Was it not Jesus who “forgave the woman taken in adultery” John 7:53-8:11? Oh yes, I forgot, she did not have a contract. Give me a break. No wonder our Church is under fire with such obnoxious, selfish and uncharitable decisions like this. Satan’s smoke has surely entered the minds, hearts and brains of those who made this apathetic ruling. We are all sinners, just doing our time and hoping to cross the finsih line with enough of God’s grace and blessings, to get us through. PRAYER IS THE ONLY REAL CONTRACT AND ANSWER, WE HAVE.
Bob Fallon, Brooklyn, NY

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By: Oscar https://notstrictlyspiritual.com/faith/pregnant-montana-teacher-deserves-to-keep-her-job/#comment-4565 Sun, 09 Feb 2014 01:13:34 +0000 https://notstrictlyspiritual.com/?p=3548#comment-4565 In reply to Shelly.

Please read the blog before making comments. It clearly states that the fired teacher is an “unwed pregnant … teacher”.

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By: Oscar https://notstrictlyspiritual.com/faith/pregnant-montana-teacher-deserves-to-keep-her-job/#comment-4564 Sun, 09 Feb 2014 00:00:45 +0000 https://notstrictlyspiritual.com/?p=3548#comment-4564 In reply to Paula.

Paula has it exactly right. Fair and balanced. Not assuming things about which she or most other readers of this blog don’t know. Unfortunately, in this case, it seems that the school and Diocese might have weighted more the potential danger of scandal than the commandment to be merciful. It’s not hard to ALWAYS find guidance in Scripture, especially the Gospels, for all our actions in life. Here are some examples that apply to this case: “Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. Do not judge, and you will not be judged; do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven” (S. Luke 6:36-37); “Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” (S. John 8:7)

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By: Colin https://notstrictlyspiritual.com/faith/pregnant-montana-teacher-deserves-to-keep-her-job/#comment-4563 Fri, 07 Feb 2014 23:43:55 +0000 https://notstrictlyspiritual.com/?p=3548#comment-4563 In reply to Peg.

Peg,

Yes punishment and atonement for our sins is very much what we should expect, but I do believe and we are taught that we have a merciful God and in turn should be merciful, prudent yes, but merciful to our fellow man. Doesn’t Matthew 6:14-15 say that how can we expect God to forgive us when we can’t forgive others. I’m really not preaching at you so please don’t take it that way.

I have asked the question on another sight. what punishment the father would receive? I know in my area if a girl becomes pregnant in our Catholic high school she is no longer allowed to attend the school, but the father receives no punishment at all. He is allowed to continue to attend the Catholic High School (this I know from experience). One’s sin is visible and the other is not. In my opinion, he should be expelled also if that is the policy.

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